On Aug 19, 2012, at 9:29 AM, a trainer named Judy wrote to PGD list in a post called "Recall improvement":
Using a lot of the recommendations on this site (walking recalls and back chaining the retrieve in particular)I am starting to see improvement in my girl's recalls. Yesterday we trained with our group (unfortunately mostly e-collar users) and she did well in a test type environment. I was able to stand halfway between the starting line and the gunner and had a successful recall.
Lindsay replied:
Using a lot of the recommendations on this site (walking recalls and back chaining the retrieve in particular)I am starting to see improvement in my girl's recalls. Yesterday we trained with our group (unfortunately mostly e-collar users) and she did well in a test type environment. I was able to stand halfway between the starting line and the gunner and had a successful recall.
Lindsay replied:
Hi, Judy and Jazz. Congratulations on this great progress. I very much like the idea of you moving up to give the dog a better chance at success on the recall. Traddies often move up for various purposes (for example, to make a water entry easier), so I would think other members of your group would approve, provided you don't drop birds out there.
I'm curious, are you watching from a moved-up position as the gunner throws, or are you and Jazz watching the throws from the original start line, and then you run up behind Jazz as she's on her retrieve so as to meet her half way when she's returning?
I'd like that info, but either way, I have another suggestion you might want to try. As your dog is running back to you, wait for a moment to be sure that she has committed to coming back, and then race away from her to the start line, receiving her there. This is physically demanding and therefore not for everyone, but Jazz might find it great fun, and that in turn might reinforce her returns. I've heard that if you do this, you should not look back at the dog as you run away, but I'm not sure what the rationale for that guidance is, so I'll leave that detail to you.
On the subject of food: Of course the traddies aren't going to approve of you using food, and you wouldn't be able to bring food to the start line in competition in any case. But those alone don't necessarily dictate that you should stop training with food for now, assuming you'll be able to fade it as you move toward later stages of your objectives.
However, one thing to watch for even now is that food can be counter-productive. I've read it can actually cause motivation for the primary behavior (in this case, retrieving) to diminish, perhaps by short-circuiting the mechanism wherein the dog is discovering how rewarding the retrieve itself is. I don't know how true that is, but it feels like it might be correct to me, and I think it's something to watch for. Alternatives might include immediately lining the dog up for another retrieve if that can be arranged, or heading back to the vehicle, perhaps running the last half of the way, and then engaging in some high-energy play such as tug, chase games, or happy-throws, or racing to a nearby pond for a water happy-throw, which was how I reinforced Lumi's land retrieves when she was first starting out, significantly improving her opinion of land retrieves. You might find that such activities are even more reinforcing than cookies.
As for my dogs, I rarely use food in the field with either of them any more, but to this day I always give them treats for jumping up into their crates after they've worked. I'm not aware of any downside to this, and it lets me give them cookies, important to me if not to them.
Sorry for the digressions. It's great hearing about your progress!
LL&L
I'm curious, are you watching from a moved-up position as the gunner throws, or are you and Jazz watching the throws from the original start line, and then you run up behind Jazz as she's on her retrieve so as to meet her half way when she's returning?
I'd like that info, but either way, I have another suggestion you might want to try. As your dog is running back to you, wait for a moment to be sure that she has committed to coming back, and then race away from her to the start line, receiving her there. This is physically demanding and therefore not for everyone, but Jazz might find it great fun, and that in turn might reinforce her returns. I've heard that if you do this, you should not look back at the dog as you run away, but I'm not sure what the rationale for that guidance is, so I'll leave that detail to you.
On the subject of food: Of course the traddies aren't going to approve of you using food, and you wouldn't be able to bring food to the start line in competition in any case. But those alone don't necessarily dictate that you should stop training with food for now, assuming you'll be able to fade it as you move toward later stages of your objectives.
However, one thing to watch for even now is that food can be counter-productive. I've read it can actually cause motivation for the primary behavior (in this case, retrieving) to diminish, perhaps by short-circuiting the mechanism wherein the dog is discovering how rewarding the retrieve itself is. I don't know how true that is, but it feels like it might be correct to me, and I think it's something to watch for. Alternatives might include immediately lining the dog up for another retrieve if that can be arranged, or heading back to the vehicle, perhaps running the last half of the way, and then engaging in some high-energy play such as tug, chase games, or happy-throws, or racing to a nearby pond for a water happy-throw, which was how I reinforced Lumi's land retrieves when she was first starting out, significantly improving her opinion of land retrieves. You might find that such activities are even more reinforcing than cookies.
As for my dogs, I rarely use food in the field with either of them any more, but to this day I always give them treats for jumping up into their crates after they've worked. I'm not aware of any downside to this, and it lets me give them cookies, important to me if not to them.
Sorry for the digressions. It's great hearing about your progress!
LL&L
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